| AuthorZone.Com |
Looks are
very important...
Let's face it, if you are fat/out of shape, you can hardly expect the respect of others...
I see fat men get all bent out of shape when their girlfriends/wives cheat on them with other sexier models. It is normal. Same goes for women...
If you want to keep your lover(s) get into shape, and loose those 80 extra pounds...
People in America are like cattle, for the most part...fat cattle everywhere... |
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| SandyLayne |
Okay...
So are you being purposefully inflammatory or ... ?
I hesitate to take the thread starter seriously because it is so obviously derogatory and judgmental against anyone without a socially-conforming body image. |
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| Ray |
Sandy,
Be honest to yourself. Would you have sex with/like to date/like to marry someone who is overweight (and I mean OVERweight) or someone who does not take care for one's own body and looks terrible day after day? Would you be able to do it just because that person is smart and/or has mental (internal) qualities you would desire from another person?
Would you really believe that the person has/is able to keep the best qualities "on the inside" if that same person did not take any care at all about his or her "outside"? |
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| michelleoleary |
I know you were directing those questions to Sandy, but I feel compelled to answer: YES!! I am married to someone who is overweight and struggles with it on a daily basis. I love him for who he is, not what he looks like. He's funny, intelligent, imaginative, and sweet. I resent your implication that the ONLY thing that matters is how a person looks.
I'm not saying that being overweight is healthy - obviously it puts a strain on your heart, joints and other internal organs. I'm also not saying that his being overweight is 'okay' with me. What I am saying is that his body is not what I fell in love with. |
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| Ray |
The key words in your post are: "...struggles with it on a daily basis..."
The key words in my post are: "...did not take any care at all about his or her 'outside'..."
Therefore, I did not imply that it is ONLY important how the person looks. Anyway, to conclude that from my post is not fair, because I haven't said anything at all about the second extreme, and that is a beautiful person with brains the size of a pea (in metaphorical sense) and/or annoying all the time, talking about irrelevant subjects (for example, "what does my hair look like?" or "did you hear that person A loves person B, but person B loves person C who loves person A?"). Would you be able to fall in love with such a person? I know I wouldn't. |
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| michelleoleary |
*lifts eyebrow* Nice backpedaling there, Ray...
In the future I recommend that if you don't want someone to reach a conclusion that you perceive as unfair about what you've written, you should write what you mean in the first place. You can say 'therefore' until you're blue in the face, but putting a dubious qualifier at the end of your post does not make the previous statements any less inflammatory. |
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| Ray |
As much as I try to explain some of my views, I can't always think of everything. The fat person was on the tape, so I talked about that. If we were discussing a beautiful moron, I would talk about that. If you were to judge that you "...resent [my] implication that the ONLY thing that matters is how a person looks..." it was YOU who should have thought of the opposite case and learn what I would do/not do in such a case.quote:
You can say 'therefore' until you're blue in the face, but putting a dubious qualifier at the end of your post does not make the previous statements any less inflammatory.
The word "therefore" connects the premises with the conclusion. I have written down the premises and the conclusion, which is why I used the word "therefore." I don't know what dubious qualifier you are talking about and which of my statements you find inflammatory. You said that you would love an overweight person who can but won't lose weight, just because of his "inside". Go ahead - your life - your choice. But don't let your choice get you to the wrong conclusions about life - keep in mind that it was YOUR CHOICE. |
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| michelleoleary |
"it was YOU who should have thought of the opposite case and learn what I would do/not do in such a case."
I'm not a mind reader Ray. I can only work with what you give me. And if you don't know what you've said that's inflammatory, I can't help you.
"You said that you would love an overweight person who can but won't lose weight, just because of his 'inside'. "
Whatever happened to "The key words in your post are: '...struggles with it on a daily basis...'"? And who says my conclusions about life are wrong? To assume that I am wrong and you are right in our choices or lifestyles is incredibly arrogant.
Re: "Therefore" - do you have any idea how patronizing you sound when you explain to a fellow writer the use of the word therefore? When I said you can say therefore until you're blue in the face, I was being sarcastic. I will give you more respect than you've shown me by not patronizing you in turn and defining the word "sarcastic". You are obviously an intelligent person, but perhaps you don't realize that treating people disrespectfully will only get you alone and lonely. |
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| Plasmo |
quote:
Therefore, I did not imply that it is ONLY important how the person looks.
Actually ... that's exactly what you implied. The reader wasn't led to consider that intelligence or personality should be considered one way OR the other by your original statement.
All that was implied was that looks could have a positive or negative impact on a person's desire.
Let's look at what you said again:
quote:
Be honest to yourself. Would you have sex with/like to date/like to marry someone who is overweight (and I mean OVERweight) or someone who does not take care for one's own body and looks terrible day after day? Would you be able to do it just because that person is smart and/or has mental (internal) qualities you would desire from another person?
Would you really believe that the person has/is able to keep the best qualities "on the inside" if that same person did not take any care at all about his or her "outside"?
Your rhetorical questions are in answer to Sandy's assertion that the original poster was being derogatory & judgemental. Your post implies that the answer to your questions are "no" and implies agreement with the original assertion.
Any kind of "backpedalling" you do now only makes you look even more foolish than you did to start with. |
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| [tanjade] |
we can't blame somebody (or even ourselves) to this kind of human behavior or mentality. but let's face it, many people are physical, they look at a persons physical attributes without searching what is inside that body or face.
here is just a tip: for people who are "overweight", live a healthy life and be confident even if the world doesn't; and for people who grudges the plus-size people... be happy that you are what you are now, you don't want to experience the pain of loosing weight?
quote:
Be honest to yourself. Would you have sex with/like to date/like to marry someone who is overweight (and I mean OVERweight) or someone who does not take care for one's own body and looks terrible day after day?
besides, it's in the performance. :eek: |
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| Ray |
I don't want to continue this discussion any more, because nobody knows who said what anymore, and frankly, nor do I.
If you're stupid and/or lazy and/or a parasite, if you're overweight and you don't care (which is what I was saying all the time) and/or deformed, don't even think about going out with me (addressed to 2nd person singular for emphasis and not to think that I am addressing you).
Bye
:cool: |
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| AuthorZone.Com |
Well, the way I look at it, in short, is like this:
If someone does not have enough respect for themselves (such as maintaining a healthy and sexy body) how can I respect them?
While respect comes in many forms and degrees, to the extent I evaluate someone, physical appearance speaks volumes to me, and I have never been wrong in my judgment. I happen to be a very good judge of character.
But then again, to each his/her own. I said my peace on the subject. I just wanted to see the reaction of others as I like to study people. |
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| Canodiva1 |
Define "overweight." Are you talking about a woman who is a size 12? A guy that could stand to lose 10 pounds?
It's all about your definition of sexy, I suppose. I don't care for men or women who spend all their spare time in the gym, trying to be sexy. That doesn't interest me, and I've found that I have no interest in getting to know most men and women who do that.
I tend to gravitate towards the people that could stand to lose 10 pounds. I've found that a lot of the time, those people really enjoy life, and spend their time doing just that. Now, I'm not talking about people that are morbidly obese, and perhaps that's what some of you are getting at.
Priorities, I suppose.
Lindsey. |
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| sabbath999 |
I think I might have a unique view on this thread.
On January 14, 2001, I weighed in at a whopping 348 pounds.
Currently, I am at about 235. I am an avid cyclist, riding an average of 20 miles per day (that's including the days in winter where it is cold and snowy, I live in the midwest).
Let me check my log here... hmmm... as of today I am at 6481 miles ridden for the year, and there have been 288 days so far, which brings me to an average of... 22.5 miles per day. That will go down in November and December, my goal is 7300 miles which is a 20 miles per day average.
Two years ago I could hardly walk across the street. Today I can ride back to back centuries (100 miles in one ride) without serious effort. My blood pressure dropped from 145/95 to 112/55.
I am 6'3 and I could stand to lose another 20 pounds. I am in awsome cardio shape, and wear a 36 inch waist pants (not bad for a 40 year old, but not great either).
So... if 20 pounds overweight means that I am fat, and therefore undesireable, then so be it.
I can tell you all that thinner is better than fatter. I feel SO much better since I have gotten into shape.
Lack of excercise and fast food (or fried foods, for that matter) are evil things. When I take the plunge and decide to write full time, I am going to encorporate cycling even more into my daily routine. 50 miles a day would be much better.
My point? Who knows. I just felt like typing.
Attached is a picture of me taken a couple of months ago, so you can see what a "fat" person (to some people 20 pounds overweight is fat!)looks like. |
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| Canodiva1 |
| Yay for you, Sabbath! |
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| u-topia |
quote:
Originally posted by michelleoleary
"it was YOU who should have thought of the opposite case and learn what I would do/not do in such a case."
I'm not a mind reader Ray. I can only work with what you give me. And if you don't know what you've said that's inflammatory, I can't help you.
"You said that you would love an overweight person who can but won't lose weight, just because of his 'inside'. "
Whatever happened to "The key words in your post are: '...struggles with it on a daily basis...'"? And who says my conclusions about life are wrong? To assume that I am wrong and you are right in our choices or lifestyles is incredibly arrogant.
Re: "Therefore" - do you have any idea how patronizing you sound when you explain to a fellow writer the use of the word therefore? When I said you can say therefore until you're blue in the face, I was being sarcastic. I will give you more respect than you've shown me by not patronizing you in turn and defining the word "sarcastic". You are obviously an intelligent person, but perhaps you don't realize that treating people disrespectfully will only get you alone and lonely.
Also, I think he's losing sight of the fact that in many societies, and many periods in history, what we consider overweight and out of shape was considered voluptuous. You only have to look at Renoir and other paintings of his period to appreciate that thin has not always been associated with attractiveness. Originally, it was desirable to carry excess weight, it ensured survival in a period of famine. And you never know, it could come to that again, so we shouldn't get too condescending towards people who are of a substantial weight and anyways, not everybnody is turned off by extra pounds, some people like it. For instance, not too many thin women have naturally large breasts.
u-topia |
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| Rob |
Are looks realy all that important? To me the question is "What criteria do we as individuals set . as to the physical atributes of a partner?"
I sometimes think that because we as a society tend to set our standards too high we miss the oportunity to meet realy interesting people. I personaly prefer a partner who is inteligent,with personality and a sense of humour,regardless of weight or looks. I suppose the question we should be asking ourseves is," Am I loking for an ornament or a lifetime companion?". If a person is looking for the former then they would have little hope of finding the later. lets face it that,svelte figure you decide to take up with will probably, by the age of 35 become what you are trying to avoid now , so why wait until then. Too many later years break ups and divorces are the result of one partner suddenly noticing middle aged spread or that their partner has becone "horizontaly challenged" (read fat).freindship comes first,then love,and by the time that happens, mating comes as a natural reaction to some one you have come to love and respect, rgardless of looks.
Rob |
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| Rain Samuti |
So long as the person in question makes an effort to look good, it doesn't matter whether or not they succeed.
I used to date a girl who was a foot shorter than me, and about two feet wider... And she was an angel. One of the nicest people I've ever met. I suppose if you want a one-night stand, you might go for the most physically attractive person you can find, but if you're after a long-term relationship, looks really don't matter at all. They're not a priority for me.
This is me, BTW: http://writers-bbs.com/members/caveman_joe - actually, that was me a few years ago.
So long as whomever you're going out with actually makes an effort, and has their heart in it, then looks are looks, and nothing more.
But if they dress in rags and have greasy hair and faces like pizza 'cause they can't be arsed to wash, that's a different matter altogether. |
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| Conservator |
Yes, people do fear themselves quite a bit. The ones who don't think but know that they are royal typically are happy.
Just remember, to be attached to your physical appearance is to insure a lifetime of suffering as you watch your form go thru it's natural motions.
I work in the entertainment industry, living off of people's extreme vanity. This industry is based on how you look, and may seem very childish. When in fact it is the great equalizer. You are never going to get IT all, you ARE it already.
three cheers for sabbath,
The Conservator |
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| Ned |
As a new member, I'm intrigued by many ideas on AuthorZone and will never have time to explore and respond to all that interest me. But this idea of attractive body types moves me to comment on my own observation and experience.
Different personality types react to the same stimulus in different ways simply because the type is a set of behavior preferences. Consequently some types are attracted by more than mere physical appearance. Some are not.
It's reasonable to say that, for man or woman, an attractive body is a valuable asset, which tends to serve as a billboard. That's especially true in the case of women, whose bodies are subject to endless decoration and emphatic display.
My experience has convinced me that in the area of sexuality, persosnality is far more important than mere physical attractiveness.
My first wife was a certified local beauty queen. A temporary playmate who lasted several months between marriages, was miss five-by-five, whose 38DD figure had lost all shape and texture in her two maternity experiences.
The wife was a little red wagon compared to the playmate, who was a brightly polished Cadillac limo. That's some food for thought.
My second wife, who looked like a slightly disapproving elementary school teacher, was more than equal to the playmate sexually, and also had desirable social and intellectual assets.
More food for thought.
Ned |
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| Weeping Dove |
I understand how you feel about people who are overwieght, or who don't take care of their bodies, but what about those of us who are ugly and not able to do anything about it, like me? I'm really thin above the waist, but when you get to my hips, everything just seems to balloon outwards. It's not a pretty picture, but that CAN be helped.
My face, however, is another matter.
A lot of people say I'm pretty, but I just don't see it in my reflection. Sure, you say, "makeup", but the makeup doesn't help. Makeup can't make over-pouty lips fall into place with the rest of the profile, it can't make fat cheeks get thin. It's not going to make my insomniac circles disapear.
Faces are just a mask for what is below. I know that I don't FEEL like the fat-faced, unattractive little girl in the mirror, so why should it matter? We're all about to get old wrinkled anyway, and you don't see old people (no offense to senior readers!) getting divorces because a once gorgeous smile is now toothless and encrusted with wrinkles (again, no offense!), do you? |
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| u-topia |
What does it matter even if a person was overweight and not trying to lose weight? What if a person didn't care at all about their appearance? How can you judge them as less than a person than somebody who keeps in shape? How superficial can we get anyway? Besides, if we ever have a famine, who is it going to be who survives it?
u-topia |
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| Temerany |
Here's the cliche: I don't think people will ever be happy with their appearance unless they are happy with their whole self.
I've lost 1.5 stone in the past month, and could now be officially classed as underweight.
But am I happy?....Am I hell.
I'm still the same, insecure, paranoid wreck I've always been!
When I'm happy with the inside, I'm sure I'll be happy with the outside.
I get the feeling that's not going to be for a very long time. |
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| u-topia |
I think it's also a good idea to define happiness. I mean maybe some people are happy just being thin and working out and denying themselves the sensual pleasure of food,others aren't and might not think it's worth it to give up pleasures just to be thin. Bye the way I have been on both sides of the weight fence many times, I am a dyed in the wool yo-yo dieter. I guess it's a matter partly of how much you're willing to sacrifice in order to be thin because of course we're all born with varying size of fat cells and while it might be relatively easy for one person to lose weight, it might require almost total self denial for another. Personally, I think we should just forget about weight and try to eat mostly high quality nutritious food as much as we can, of course that isn't always possible because high quality, nutritious food is way more expensive than junk food. And as has already been mentioned, it all starts with self acceptance with yourself as you are.
u-topia |
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| sxyvxn3779 |
| beauty is in the eye of the beholder. and mental stability is a very important factor as well, among other things... a man needs confidence in order to date me. the current boyfriend is now my future husband is definitely attractive, stable, confident, smart and happens to be 15 years older than me. are some of you implying that if he gained 40 pounds and when he is old and gray, i should leave him? |
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| Book-Master |
Looks, eh... Alright, are looks important? Let's look at that. As pointed out, both men and women tend to be more physicly attracted usally. HOwever, relationships don't need to be built on just looks, if that was true, you might as well say you'd leave your husband if he lost a leg and had his face mauled in a car crash. However, looks can be important in any relationship, merly to the fact that humans are like that.
Are looks important? I suppose the answer is "yes". Are looks nessecary for a relationship? No |
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